ccrandall77
Aug 11, 04:00 PM
I'm eligible for a new phone in just five days. As of right now I'm going to get the Chocolate because I like the style. Couldn't really care less about listening to music on my phone, that's what my iPod's for. ;)
But...but...if Apple does release a phone and I've already bought the Chocolate then I'll be kicking myself to no end. But on the other hand, how likely is it that the iPhone will even work on Verizon?
Bah! I need a new phone! :(
You might want to read some reviews on the Chocolate before buying it. I've seen a handful of reviews that were less than favorable.
A good resource is Phonescoop.com. They usually have a decent amount of user reviews upon which you can base your purchasing decisions.
But...but...if Apple does release a phone and I've already bought the Chocolate then I'll be kicking myself to no end. But on the other hand, how likely is it that the iPhone will even work on Verizon?
Bah! I need a new phone! :(
You might want to read some reviews on the Chocolate before buying it. I've seen a handful of reviews that were less than favorable.
A good resource is Phonescoop.com. They usually have a decent amount of user reviews upon which you can base your purchasing decisions.
usptact
Apr 11, 02:12 AM
Get me right but i get negative impression about Apple reading this : "Canon was told last night that Apple has demanded ALL “lecturn” or stage time exclusively."
It is ok to be ambitious but not imperialistic and mean!
It is ok to be ambitious but not imperialistic and mean!
slb
Aug 26, 07:05 PM
I happen to have a Yonah Macbook, and im a little concerned.
I wonder, if merom does make it into the Macbooks did i make a mistake by buying my computer before i had to (as in next friday is the cutoff)
I wonder if Merom is really that good. *it sucks that macbooks dont have PGA slots*
It'll just be a slightly faster chip with 64-bit (which won't get used until Leopard, and which most people will never need anyway).
The time you'll want to upgrade will be next year after Santa Rosa comes out with its faster FSB to really take advantage of the Core 2 chips. Intel calls these upcoming Meroms an "initial version," a stepping stone for current Yonah users. It'll be interesting to see if Apple does anything with the Robson flash.
That said, the current Core Duo Macs are still really fast and will continue to be so next year, running Leopard fine. I've got no regrets. I expect my iMac to last me for at least a few years.
I wonder, if merom does make it into the Macbooks did i make a mistake by buying my computer before i had to (as in next friday is the cutoff)
I wonder if Merom is really that good. *it sucks that macbooks dont have PGA slots*
It'll just be a slightly faster chip with 64-bit (which won't get used until Leopard, and which most people will never need anyway).
The time you'll want to upgrade will be next year after Santa Rosa comes out with its faster FSB to really take advantage of the Core 2 chips. Intel calls these upcoming Meroms an "initial version," a stepping stone for current Yonah users. It'll be interesting to see if Apple does anything with the Robson flash.
That said, the current Core Duo Macs are still really fast and will continue to be so next year, running Leopard fine. I've got no regrets. I expect my iMac to last me for at least a few years.
charlituna
Apr 6, 08:22 PM
I've posted several predictions over the past few months throughout this tread at Cinema5D:
http://cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=25464
I took a look at the post and while I think your ideas are well thought out and very 'Apple' there are a few points that I disagree with.
First off the notion that Apple has to match QuickTime on Windows and Mac. I don't see that they do so I won't be shocked if they don't. Or they might do another QT Pro (but i doubt they would let you use your old QT7 key)
Also on the whole timeline issue. I don't see it as Apple changing one for the other. What I see is the user having a choice. They did this in iMovie so why not in FCS. Let folks work the way they feel is most efficient whether that is single line, flowchart etc. Same with how some of the tools function. Leave the old way and add the new one. Maybe both on the screen or perhaps a preference that allows you to use 'classic tools'.
I'm not sure I agree with the idea of them adding Aperture to the package, but I agree that they could and should have some kind of catalog program or mode. Something that could perhaps bridge the components and even perhaps output from other programs like Premiere, Maya etc even Logic Studio. It might even allow for importing and logging without having to open Final Cut and allow you to put in Meta data like location, names of people in shot, etc. Stuff that would make that iMovie People Search etc viable tools.
And while I like the idea of a plugin store I'm not sure it would be separate from the Mac App Store, particularly if this version of FCS required at least Snow Leo. even if it was its own face I could definitely see Apple putting it into that pay system.
And one thing you didn't mention that I think is plausible is incorporating FCServer into the set rather than as a stand alone sku. Perhaps not within the programs but put that disk in the box as well. if Lion is any example, Apple seems to be getting away from separating Server functionality and having that software in the box as well could help those on the fence about switching. Especially if the whole thing was no more that the current $999 (a little less would be even better)
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Prince William and Kate
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List of wedding invitation
http://cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=25464
I took a look at the post and while I think your ideas are well thought out and very 'Apple' there are a few points that I disagree with.
First off the notion that Apple has to match QuickTime on Windows and Mac. I don't see that they do so I won't be shocked if they don't. Or they might do another QT Pro (but i doubt they would let you use your old QT7 key)
Also on the whole timeline issue. I don't see it as Apple changing one for the other. What I see is the user having a choice. They did this in iMovie so why not in FCS. Let folks work the way they feel is most efficient whether that is single line, flowchart etc. Same with how some of the tools function. Leave the old way and add the new one. Maybe both on the screen or perhaps a preference that allows you to use 'classic tools'.
I'm not sure I agree with the idea of them adding Aperture to the package, but I agree that they could and should have some kind of catalog program or mode. Something that could perhaps bridge the components and even perhaps output from other programs like Premiere, Maya etc even Logic Studio. It might even allow for importing and logging without having to open Final Cut and allow you to put in Meta data like location, names of people in shot, etc. Stuff that would make that iMovie People Search etc viable tools.
And while I like the idea of a plugin store I'm not sure it would be separate from the Mac App Store, particularly if this version of FCS required at least Snow Leo. even if it was its own face I could definitely see Apple putting it into that pay system.
And one thing you didn't mention that I think is plausible is incorporating FCServer into the set rather than as a stand alone sku. Perhaps not within the programs but put that disk in the box as well. if Lion is any example, Apple seems to be getting away from separating Server functionality and having that software in the box as well could help those on the fence about switching. Especially if the whole thing was no more that the current $999 (a little less would be even better)
THX1139
Aug 21, 02:09 AM
I stopped by the Apple store tonight to play with a Macpro. I'm getting ready to buy and thought I'd get some hands on experience to see how it performed with Finalcut Pro. I was especially interested in how it handles playback of uncompressed footage.
The store had a 2.6 hooked up to a 30"ACD. Everything on the machine was stock. I launched FCP and it appeared with a project already loaded (about 5 seconds). The project was a simple 20-30 second 720x480 NTSC clip of hockey game footage. I selected the clip and copied it to a new layer and threw a blend mode on it AND changed the speed to 85%. Next I copied and made another layer and changed the speed and offset it and changed the transparency to 80%. 3 layers total with the top two manipulated. I hit the render and it finished in about 30 seconds. :)
I know, not very scientific, but I just wanted to get a feel for how fast the Macpro would render manipulated footage. Anyhow, next I changed the output in project settings to "uncompressed" and hit render again. Again, it took less than a minute to render and the CPU usage in console was maxing out at only 42% per core.
Once the render completed, I hit the play button to see how the stock Macpro would handle playback of the uncompressed footage. It played for about 4 seconds then threw an error saying that frames were being dropped during playback. Not good. I was hoping that the Macpro would be able to play uncompressed footage from the timeline without 3rd party acceleration or setting up a raid. The error message suggested turning off RT effects (of which I did, but still had dropped frames) or get a faster drive. There was a couple other things the error suggested, but I can't remember at the moment. I wonder if having the ATI card would have made a difference? Not sure if FCP uses the GPU for playback, but I would think that should make a difference. Ram would probably help too. Anyone know what might be going on? Am I expecting too much out of this machine?
Sorry for sort of getting off topic. I thought this might be an appropriate area to post this; I wasn't feeling up to starting a new thread.
The store had a 2.6 hooked up to a 30"ACD. Everything on the machine was stock. I launched FCP and it appeared with a project already loaded (about 5 seconds). The project was a simple 20-30 second 720x480 NTSC clip of hockey game footage. I selected the clip and copied it to a new layer and threw a blend mode on it AND changed the speed to 85%. Next I copied and made another layer and changed the speed and offset it and changed the transparency to 80%. 3 layers total with the top two manipulated. I hit the render and it finished in about 30 seconds. :)
I know, not very scientific, but I just wanted to get a feel for how fast the Macpro would render manipulated footage. Anyhow, next I changed the output in project settings to "uncompressed" and hit render again. Again, it took less than a minute to render and the CPU usage in console was maxing out at only 42% per core.
Once the render completed, I hit the play button to see how the stock Macpro would handle playback of the uncompressed footage. It played for about 4 seconds then threw an error saying that frames were being dropped during playback. Not good. I was hoping that the Macpro would be able to play uncompressed footage from the timeline without 3rd party acceleration or setting up a raid. The error message suggested turning off RT effects (of which I did, but still had dropped frames) or get a faster drive. There was a couple other things the error suggested, but I can't remember at the moment. I wonder if having the ATI card would have made a difference? Not sure if FCP uses the GPU for playback, but I would think that should make a difference. Ram would probably help too. Anyone know what might be going on? Am I expecting too much out of this machine?
Sorry for sort of getting off topic. I thought this might be an appropriate area to post this; I wasn't feeling up to starting a new thread.
fatfish
Aug 7, 10:17 PM
Any ideas on whether we will be able to make our own stationary templates in mail ???
vincenz
Apr 7, 10:47 PM
Obviously you know little about retail and accounting.
Don't be a troll :rolleyes:
Don't be a troll :rolleyes:
Becordial
Apr 27, 08:25 AM
I think the patch to iOS is a good response.
Making it clear the log file especially when you switch off location services is a good response, and that it will shorten the overall storage of it.
I hope it still does fast triangulation as necessary - there is a benefit to that - but just that the record keeping part basically is a non issue any more, because the cache is regularly flushed.
Making it clear the log file especially when you switch off location services is a good response, and that it will shorten the overall storage of it.
I hope it still does fast triangulation as necessary - there is a benefit to that - but just that the record keeping part basically is a non issue any more, because the cache is regularly flushed.
Lone Deranger
Mar 31, 05:30 PM
To put it in Nelson's words:
Scottsdale
Apr 6, 11:59 AM
It would be about as fast. The IGP is 150MHz slower though so graphics wise it would be slightly slower. chrmjenkins explained some smaller details but in terms of performance, i7-2649M should be similar to i5-2520M.
Remember that those are numbers under Windows. Anand mentioned in his 2011 MBP review that Intel HD 3000 has brilliant drivers in OS X, and in general it beat the 320M in OS X too. In Windows it got badly beaten by 320M. Sure the LV and especially ULV IGP will be slower than 320M, even in OS X but the Windows numbers don't correspond to OS X numbers.
Are you smoking something? Sure the IGP used in SB 13" MBP might get some fudged numbers by those who report for Apple, but you think the ULV SB IGP is going to even compare to the 320m on any level??? Huh? You are far smarter than that.
A lot of people using the 13" MBP in comparison when there are almost no similaries.
I don't believe a ULV CPU gets used in the 13" MBA. I don't believe this CPU in the story gets used in the 13" MBA. I don't believe Apple is dumb enough to ruin the MBA brand AGAIN with Intel's IGP at this time. I don't believe that what Apple does in the 13" MBP has any correlation with the MBA because the IGP is different. I believe when Apple and Nvidia said Apple will use the Nvidia chipset and GPU for a long time they were specifically citing the MBA, as it make no sense for the MBA to be so challenged as to get such an inferior design leading to tragic real world results.
In 2012 the MBA will get an update when it actually makes sense. People waiting for a ULV SB chip in the 13" MBA will be waiting a long time. People waiting or expecting SB IGP to even compare in ULV variants will be waiting forever as they cannot match the Nvidia offering with the underclocked IGP.
This story is ridiculous as written.
Remember that those are numbers under Windows. Anand mentioned in his 2011 MBP review that Intel HD 3000 has brilliant drivers in OS X, and in general it beat the 320M in OS X too. In Windows it got badly beaten by 320M. Sure the LV and especially ULV IGP will be slower than 320M, even in OS X but the Windows numbers don't correspond to OS X numbers.
Are you smoking something? Sure the IGP used in SB 13" MBP might get some fudged numbers by those who report for Apple, but you think the ULV SB IGP is going to even compare to the 320m on any level??? Huh? You are far smarter than that.
A lot of people using the 13" MBP in comparison when there are almost no similaries.
I don't believe a ULV CPU gets used in the 13" MBA. I don't believe this CPU in the story gets used in the 13" MBA. I don't believe Apple is dumb enough to ruin the MBA brand AGAIN with Intel's IGP at this time. I don't believe that what Apple does in the 13" MBP has any correlation with the MBA because the IGP is different. I believe when Apple and Nvidia said Apple will use the Nvidia chipset and GPU for a long time they were specifically citing the MBA, as it make no sense for the MBA to be so challenged as to get such an inferior design leading to tragic real world results.
In 2012 the MBA will get an update when it actually makes sense. People waiting for a ULV SB chip in the 13" MBA will be waiting a long time. People waiting or expecting SB IGP to even compare in ULV variants will be waiting forever as they cannot match the Nvidia offering with the underclocked IGP.
This story is ridiculous as written.
logandzwon
Apr 19, 02:36 PM
Couldn't Samsung just claim that the Galaxy S line is an evolution of the Samsung F700? Pretty strong argument for samsung.
They could. Except, "Jobs unveiled the iPhone to the public on January 9, 2007 at Macworld 2007" according to Wikipedia. F700 after that; http://www.google.com/search?q=samsung+F700+announced
They could. Except, "Jobs unveiled the iPhone to the public on January 9, 2007 at Macworld 2007" according to Wikipedia. F700 after that; http://www.google.com/search?q=samsung+F700+announced
logandzwon
Apr 25, 03:13 PM
I love how Media and most everyone was asleep about this known issue, until just recently, and now it is some kind of emergency.
I am not an Apple apologist by any means, but it is NOT their fault if people are not securely backing up, their personal and private data.
Apple's only fault (IMHO) is not encrypting the location logfile on the phone, or the system with regards to backups. Regardless, security of data is the end user's responsibility, not the manufacturer of their computer or software.
See, I have a very different opinion.
Apple has an image of things just working. Apple actively promotes this image. The image is includes the idea that people don't have to worry about the details, like security of their devices. Even for backups, Apple makes it so all you need to have full backups is plug in an $50 usb drive.
That said, looking at the iPhone the way it is intended to be used, it's an accessory of your computer. A mobile remote with limited access to the "main" computer. If we except that view point, then;
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I am not an Apple apologist by any means, but it is NOT their fault if people are not securely backing up, their personal and private data.
Apple's only fault (IMHO) is not encrypting the location logfile on the phone, or the system with regards to backups. Regardless, security of data is the end user's responsibility, not the manufacturer of their computer or software.
See, I have a very different opinion.
Apple has an image of things just working. Apple actively promotes this image. The image is includes the idea that people don't have to worry about the details, like security of their devices. Even for backups, Apple makes it so all you need to have full backups is plug in an $50 usb drive.
That said, looking at the iPhone the way it is intended to be used, it's an accessory of your computer. A mobile remote with limited access to the "main" computer. If we except that view point, then;
lsvtecjohn3
Apr 6, 02:21 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)
Motorola doesn't "get" tablets yet, but the G1 didn't sell well either. Let's look at the market again in two years, I bet it'll look a lot different.
Cell phones and tablets are completely different. Unless some of these other manufacturer can get their tablets cheaper than the iPad I don't see that happing. The carriers are the ones are subsiding a lot of Android phones free with contract and BOGOF. Even if you can get a tablet subsidized for $299 with a two year contract I still don't know if people would be willing to spend $30 at the end of that contract thats over $1,000.
Another reason also is that the Xoom only has something like 20 Apps made for tablets where the iPad has over 65,000. You also have power user that see no need in a tablet right now.
Motorola doesn't "get" tablets yet, but the G1 didn't sell well either. Let's look at the market again in two years, I bet it'll look a lot different.
Cell phones and tablets are completely different. Unless some of these other manufacturer can get their tablets cheaper than the iPad I don't see that happing. The carriers are the ones are subsiding a lot of Android phones free with contract and BOGOF. Even if you can get a tablet subsidized for $299 with a two year contract I still don't know if people would be willing to spend $30 at the end of that contract thats over $1,000.
Another reason also is that the Xoom only has something like 20 Apps made for tablets where the iPad has over 65,000. You also have power user that see no need in a tablet right now.
FreeState
Feb 28, 08:34 PM
Now you've stopped stating opinions and walked into fact territory.
CITATION NEEDED!
Has anyone ever been truly 'cured' of homosexuality? You need to produce empirical evidence. Notably brain scans showing the arousal of a homosexual to people of his same sex before and after this 'treatment.'
If you can produce that evidence, I will be satisfied that homosexuality is a treatable condition. Until then, I'm just assuming that you're stating dogma as fact to make reprehensible claims.
My guess is "untreatable" means no one has been cured.
However medical science does not view sexual orientation as needing any treatment, its not an illness.
CITATION NEEDED!
Has anyone ever been truly 'cured' of homosexuality? You need to produce empirical evidence. Notably brain scans showing the arousal of a homosexual to people of his same sex before and after this 'treatment.'
If you can produce that evidence, I will be satisfied that homosexuality is a treatable condition. Until then, I'm just assuming that you're stating dogma as fact to make reprehensible claims.
My guess is "untreatable" means no one has been cured.
However medical science does not view sexual orientation as needing any treatment, its not an illness.
Flowbee
Aug 5, 04:06 PM
My longshot dream is the Mac Pro Cube.
Raid
Apr 29, 12:46 PM
So what? Who said liberals never partake in name calling? You claimed that liberals do more name calling. You want me to go dig out examples of name-calling done by conservative voices such as Limbaugh, Beck, etc.?
I should add Trump to that list to keep this somewhat on track with the subject of this thread.
Hey now don't go and try to get this thread back on track! ;)
You could, cite name-calling examples on both sides but it really shouldn't be about who started it, or who does it more; really it should be more about ending it and talking about the issues... but then we'd be in danger of actually progressing.
I should add Trump to that list to keep this somewhat on track with the subject of this thread.
Hey now don't go and try to get this thread back on track! ;)
You could, cite name-calling examples on both sides but it really shouldn't be about who started it, or who does it more; really it should be more about ending it and talking about the issues... but then we'd be in danger of actually progressing.
FearlessFreep
Apr 11, 01:31 PM
I still don't get why people just don't follow the components to figure out the timing. If the touchscreen size is indeed going to change, then it has to be manufactured in sufficient quantity before launch. Otherwise you end up with not enough product in the pipeline to meet demand (see Ipad, 2).
There's outside factors at work here as well - namely the Japan disaster which has constrained supplies.
Apple may not have any choice but to wait until Fall.
There's outside factors at work here as well - namely the Japan disaster which has constrained supplies.
Apple may not have any choice but to wait until Fall.
QuarterSwede
Apr 25, 01:54 PM
why isn't there an opt-in (apart from the general 'eat **** or die' TOU) or at least an opt-out for this?
It's opt-in. When you first use an app that requests to use location data iOS asks you if that okay and you can deny it. You can also opt out by turning location services off..
why is it so easy to access the data?
Put a pin/password on you phone and encrypt your iTunes backup (it's a simple checkbox in iTunes preferences). You're secure.
I can't possibly see how the plaintiffs can win this one.
It's opt-in. When you first use an app that requests to use location data iOS asks you if that okay and you can deny it. You can also opt out by turning location services off..
why is it so easy to access the data?
Put a pin/password on you phone and encrypt your iTunes backup (it's a simple checkbox in iTunes preferences). You're secure.
I can't possibly see how the plaintiffs can win this one.
dclocke
Sep 19, 10:06 AM
...that and a Airplane/Auto Magsafe power adapter. dont you think that would be nice. it's been to long without it! cmon apple. build it!
On a (somewhat) unrelated subject... I must be flying on the wrong airlines, because I only think I've been on a plane with any kind of power outlet (AC or DC) once, and that was on one of the larger (trans-oceanic?) planes. Which sucks, because my current laptop usually doesn't have enough battery power to even last through a 2 hour flight...
On a (somewhat) unrelated subject... I must be flying on the wrong airlines, because I only think I've been on a plane with any kind of power outlet (AC or DC) once, and that was on one of the larger (trans-oceanic?) planes. Which sucks, because my current laptop usually doesn't have enough battery power to even last through a 2 hour flight...
antic
Mar 22, 01:18 PM
Why are you even giving these product the time of day. I come on here to read about apple products. If I were interested in samsung or blackberry products I'd be looking elsewhere. Your just giving them free advertising.
Yamcha
Apr 19, 02:08 PM
Sorry about the caps but everyone should see this:
EVERYONE: THE PICTURE POSTED HERE IS STRAIGHT FUD. THE F700 WAS NOT ANNOUNCED AT CEBIT 2006! THIS IS A LIE!
Here are the phones they announced: http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_at_cebit_2006-news-177.php
So, is it possible for a mod to get rid of this? It's trolling and FUD at its finest.
According to Wikipedia It was released in Feb before the iPhone was released..
EVERYONE: THE PICTURE POSTED HERE IS STRAIGHT FUD. THE F700 WAS NOT ANNOUNCED AT CEBIT 2006! THIS IS A LIE!
Here are the phones they announced: http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_at_cebit_2006-news-177.php
So, is it possible for a mod to get rid of this? It's trolling and FUD at its finest.
According to Wikipedia It was released in Feb before the iPhone was released..
rerelease
Apr 11, 03:58 PM
A 4" screen at the current 3:2 ratio would look absolutely hideous with the general iPhone design (which I doubt they change) and not very sensible in the age where tablets are squeezing themselves between laptops and smartphones (a philosophy which Apple is a strong supporter of).
I'd rather have a more sleek, compact smartphone that fits in my pocket and where the screen doesn't suck the battery dry within a few hours and I expect (and/or hope) to see Apple deliver just that.
I'd rather have a more sleek, compact smartphone that fits in my pocket and where the screen doesn't suck the battery dry within a few hours and I expect (and/or hope) to see Apple deliver just that.
BLUELION
Apr 6, 01:25 PM
Score, iPad2=1, Xoom=0.
but really, if we adjust for # of sales the score is more like:
ipad2=20, Xoom=1
but really, if we adjust for # of sales the score is more like:
ipad2=20, Xoom=1
gnasher729
Jul 23, 06:41 PM
A Quad 2.3 for $1999 ... not going to happen.
Even the cheapest configuration of Dell Precision 490 Workstartion (http://catalog.us.dell.com/CS1/cs1page2.aspx?br=6&c=us&cs=04&fm=11456&kc=6W463&l=en&s=bsd) with dual 2.3 Woodcrests comes out to $2348. This includes 1GB RAM, 80GB SATA drive, and 128MB nVidia Quadro NVS 285 2D graphics.
Apple prices are typically a few hundred $ higher. I am guessing it will be more like $2699 with a larger hard drive and better graphics.
That's what Kentsfield is for. It is a single quad core chip, which is expected to fit into the cheaper motherboards for Conroe instead of the much more expensive motherboards for Woodcrest.
Two recent quotes: On their earnings release, Apple said that they are on track to finish the Intel transition by the end of the year. And Intel said that Kentsfield will be available in the last quarter of this year. A single chip Woodcrest is nonsense (much more expensive than Conroe at same performance). Complete line with dual chip times dual core Woodcrest is too expensive for the cheapest mode. By waiting for Kentsfield, Apple can avoid designing two motherboards and still have quad cores.
Even the cheapest configuration of Dell Precision 490 Workstartion (http://catalog.us.dell.com/CS1/cs1page2.aspx?br=6&c=us&cs=04&fm=11456&kc=6W463&l=en&s=bsd) with dual 2.3 Woodcrests comes out to $2348. This includes 1GB RAM, 80GB SATA drive, and 128MB nVidia Quadro NVS 285 2D graphics.
Apple prices are typically a few hundred $ higher. I am guessing it will be more like $2699 with a larger hard drive and better graphics.
That's what Kentsfield is for. It is a single quad core chip, which is expected to fit into the cheaper motherboards for Conroe instead of the much more expensive motherboards for Woodcrest.
Two recent quotes: On their earnings release, Apple said that they are on track to finish the Intel transition by the end of the year. And Intel said that Kentsfield will be available in the last quarter of this year. A single chip Woodcrest is nonsense (much more expensive than Conroe at same performance). Complete line with dual chip times dual core Woodcrest is too expensive for the cheapest mode. By waiting for Kentsfield, Apple can avoid designing two motherboards and still have quad cores.
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